Private Messages

The following is an actual Facebook private message exchange from the past week. I asked my friend’s permission to share it here and he agreed. I have changed his name here to protect his privacy. In the past this type of communication would have really rattled me especially coming from a fellow pastor (as my friend is).  Through these types of exchanges I feel like I learn a lot about who I am and who Jesus is. I hope it will do the same for you. I would like to say a special thanks to my friend who had enough respect for me to talk to me directly and not go to my husband or gossip about the situation to mutual friends.

Justin
I’m really confused. Any time there’s some sort of controversy, you seem to be quick to take the side of the non-traditional, non-orthodox. Whether it’s Rob Bell saying everybody goes to Heaven, there is no eternal hell, support of Mormons as Christians because they’re nice people, or the homosexual lifestyle. Every time, it appears that you stand against orthodox interpretation of the Word of God and join with those who (in my interpretation) twist, distort & pervert Biblical theology.
I know this sounds like I’m attacking you. I wish I could be honest and not make this personal. I’m hoping you don’t take this personal (I must say, you do seem to be pretty thick-skinned) because I have enjoyed many of our discussions (and debates).
At the same time, if you hung out with me for a week or two you’d know that there are theological, stereological, and ecclesiological issues that put me on the evangelical fringe.
But, in my opinion, when we’re talking about issues like hell, false religions, perversion of scripture & the Biblical family … frankly, I’m concerned.
And that’s why I didn’t post this publicly.
BTW… I’m not looking for a debate. Just felt like I needed to share this. Not sure if for your sake, or mine.
One more thing…. I’m sure… no, I know!… that I post stuff that drives you crazy as well. lol

Michelle Morr KrabillJust saw this. Will have to take some time this weekend to respond. It is too late tonight. M

Justin
…. I was afraid you’d unfriended me by now! lol

Michelle Morr Krabill

Justin,
Here is the thing, I am thick skinned when it comes to these discussions however when you make the kind of statements you made about me I am not sure there is any other way to take it but personally. After all you have made some strong accusations about me (my person) here.

#1 You say “ANYTIME there is a controversy” I seem to be “quick to take the side of the nontraditional or nonorthodox” and also “EVERY TIME, it appears” that I “stand against orthodox interpretation of the Word of God and join with those who twist, distort & pervert Biblical theology.”
ANYTIME and EVERY TIME? Really Justin?
#2 I stand against orthodox interpretation of the Word of God and join (become one of) those who twist, distort & pervert BIBLICAL theology? This is the definition of a heretic. Do you think I am a heretic? This is a very strong accusation.
I stand squarely with the writers of the Apostles creed. I do not understand how anything I have ever said goes against this creed which I am sure you agree with.
#3 Rob Bell never says nor do I that everyone get’s into heaven. Rob Bell is okay with asking what if, and so am I. I am sorry, I will go to my grave hoping (like God btw) that all will be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. Yes, even the people who do completely evil things. Because how great would it be for them to repent and become the people they always should have been instead of the monsters that they were?
#4 I never said Mormons were Christians because they were “nice people”. I seriously think you know better than that. I just think evangelicals in particular are quick to say being Mormon and being Christian are mutually exclusive. God is the only one who sees hearts. I do not. To say there will be no Mormons in heaven is arrogant and preposterous. Do I believe they get some pretty important things wrong? Yes. Do I have everything about God and salvation and life right? No. Is what Jesus did enough to cover it. You know it.
#5 The homosexual life style. You may find this blog apropos…http://gcnjustin.tumblr.com/post/27909731175/no-im-not-in-the-gay-lifestyle-neither-is-anyone

Do we disagree on this issue? Yes. Does that mean either of us are heretics? I don’t think so. Do I stand in the corner of the rejected and shunned? You better believe it. I am not perfect at it but I would rather answer to God for trying to reconcile LGBT with the God who is the lover of their soul (practicing or not) than to try to explain to him why I pushed them further away. Once again, could I be wrong? Of course. But you know what we are all going to have things we are surprised by on that day and I would rather err on the side of love.
#6 I have no plans to defriend you any time soon.

m

Michelle Morr KrabillI would also like to say thank you for coming to me directly instead of going to kent or my parents.

Michelle Morr Krabill
last thing, Rachel Held Evans does a great job of explaining my issue with the term “Biblical theology”…

A veryrachelheldevans.com
“Both read the Bible day and night, But thou read’st black where I read white”- William Blake In the coming weeks, we’ll be diving into some excellent books about how to read the Bible—N.T. Wright’s Scripture and the Authority of God, Peter Enns’
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Justin
I appreciate your candid response. First of all, I sincerely apologize for my “Any” and “Every” statements. I HATE when people do that. And I did it. (I could blame it on the late hour, but that’s a pretty lame excuse for my insensitivity.) … I understand how you could take some of my comments personally. I just didn’t know any other way to communicate them. Again, I’m sorry. I believe I stated that I don’t want to get in to a debate, so I’ll refrain from justifying my positions or attacking yours. I will read the article you referenced (any time I see the name N.T. Wright, I’m interested.) N.T. does not agree w/ the traditional, evangelical idea of eternity (Heaven vs. New Earth). I agree with Wright. I’m also not a believer in traditional, evangelical soteriology (walk an aisle, pray the sinner’s prayer, now you’re in.) Oh, and I drink beer & occasionally play music in bars. So I’m really not your textbook pastor.

I do appreciate that you communicate your beliefs in an intelligent, calm manner (usually, lol). I’m also not a fan of hyperbolic, over-zealous, uninformed, unintelligent, hyper-emotional Christians trying to force agreement on their issues.
So, I’m glad we’re still friends. Still disagree. But I do not ignore your posts. And if I have issue, I will always come directly to you. In private. Seems like the Jesus thing to do.

Michelle Morr Krabill

Forgiven. Glad we can disagree and still be friends. I love NT esp on the new heavens and earth stuff.

In the end Justin and I did what we must do in order to truly love one another as Jesus asked us to. There was forgiveness and humility. Was there agreement? No. But this type of disagreement allows us to continue to learn from each other and still have a means to allow the Holy Spirit to do his job of convicting of sin and righteousness instead of trying to do it for him. It is our job to love and God’s job to change hearts.

Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse them. Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil for evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” To the contrary, “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.
(Romans 12:14-21 ESV)

And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
(John 16:8-11 ESV)

By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
(John 13:35 ESV)

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3 thoughts on “Private Messages

  1. Blake also wrote,
    The vision of God which thou dost see
    is my vision’s greatest enemy.
    Mine has a snub nose, like to mine,
    Thine has a hooked nose, like to thine.

    And Doctrines create idols

    only wonder comprehends anything

    People kill one another over idols

    Wonder makes us fall to our knees.-Gregory of Nyssa, who contributed to the Nicene creed.

  2. Michelle:

    I’m both an apostate and a heretic, so welcome to the club you may one day be invited to join and/or be labeled/libeled/lauded as being a member of.

    The beer is pretty good, so it’s worth it!

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